This interview was taken from Avessalom Podvodnogo for the magazine «Russian astrology» in February, 1995. The question of a ratio of such phenomena, as a science, religion, an occultism during an era of Aquarius here reveals.
M. Zheleznov – Us now interests, during an era of Aquarius, a ratio traditionally understood religions, an occultism and a science. How further these branches of knowledge will correspond?
A.Podvodny is a subject for the multivolume composition. As it is represented to me, the first that will characterize transition by an era of Aquarius is a cardinal revision of problems of the relations of the personality and collective. Also such thing, as the relation to truth here belongs. The truth very accurately shares on truth objective (social) and truth subjective (truth for an individual). Speaking about religion, I consider that the religion is a part of culture of the people, and idea of merge of religions, in this sense, at all it is not represented to me true. There is such concept as the world culture (and any separate things enter into world culture, let us assume, works of art), but after all always is concept of «national culture» as some whole and consequently each nation always will have the religion. Even if in the neighboring country the similar religion confesses, between them there will be quite essential difference, at least, within national consciousness.
On the other hand, there are things which are above religion – for example, it is religious philosophy. And as regards religious philosophy probably certain association. And here, apparently, it is possible to carry both science philosophy, and astrology philosophy.
The religious philosophy, in any sense, is over religion (in the sense that it considers religion as объест studying), but it is in some other sense deeply under religion. And the astrology is deeply under religion. In what sense? That the religion answers the most important for each person questions: «Why I came to this world? What my main vital ideal? To what I should aspire?» The astrology does not answer these questions. Philosophy too. The astrology and philosophy give some language on which the ideal can be expressed. But they do not give to the person «an arrow of a compass». And when to the astrologer the client comes and speak «And now tell to me, what my vital mission? What main goal of my life?» that, strictly speaking, the astrologer as though goes to this moment, and to the place of the astrologer in the adviser there is a spiritual teacher. And if the astrologer assumes this mission, it, following a horoscope, something can sometimes tell. But the main thing thus, whether can act in principle it as the ecclesiastic. And I consider that the astrology as the tool of psychological knowledge of the person is so strong that practically any person who prosecutes humanitarian subjects, beginning, let us assume, with the writer and, finishing the economist who is interested, apparently, not in quite psychological questions, should consider heavenly konstellyatsiya somehow.
Now, as to contradictions which are between religion and an astrology. This question is more correct for putting so: there are contradictions between some views of certain religious organizations and specific astrologers.
– In fact, it is possible to speak about the conflict between church and an astrology…
– At all between church and an astrology, and between church and certain astrologers who assume those roles which the church intends only for itself. The matter is that the astrology can be used differently. And even such the most known and most its doubtful part as the predictive astrology, can be used absolutely differently. In the Middle Ages, for example, astrologies refused the right to existence because it predicted eclipses (and it was considered as direct intervention in affairs of God because only God knows when there will be eclipses). Now, nevertheless, astronomy nobody opposes religions. The same it is possible to tell about a predictive astrology. The astrologer can give a forecast of the general order (such which is necessary and desirable to each person and in which each person is engaged, planning affairs, let us assume, for the next week, on the holiday). In any sense, the future prediction, certain forecasts are a part of the life of any person, any organization. Another thing is that too concrete predictions prevent the person to live and create his own future. A certain free will in uncertainty of the future always should be, and if the astrologer (or any other predictor) interferes with this subjective plan, he, naturally, behaves unethically.
On the other hand, astrologers recognize that if there is a negative prediction and in time to take measures, the event will not occur. This popular belief and it means that predictions of astrologers too are not absolute truth. Thank God that so. But that the astrology in principle contradicts religion – I with it am not agrees, in any case, the meteorology contradicts no more, than. God creates the world, but not simply so, purely casually, chaotically, and together with certain laws. The astrology studies these laws. Therefore the astrology is much below religion in this regard. The astrology describes certain regularities of existence of the world (as this science humanitarian, it is impossible to speak about exact laws).
Whether is the astrology a science or not? Often, and with big pressing ask this question. From my point of view, rightfully it is possible to call an astrology the humanity. Whether is the psychology a science, a question, actually, quite sharp because the object of psychology is pretty indistinct. It is the plan psychological. The same it is possible to tell about the sobytiyny plan. If we pass to idea of identity – the person as микрокосм – that a question that there is an event for it, becomes deeply psychological moment. And that was for it a grandiose event is frequent, many years are realized later. Now it is asked, when after all there was an event – when it physically occurred or when he understood, at last, that it was such. Often happens that the internal event outwardly in any way is not expressed and happens on the contrary: for example, such grandiose event as the marriage, in life can not sound, practically, in any way. Therefore it is possible to speak about an astrology as about a humanitarian psychological science which helps the person to live and be guided with society but which, naturally, has restrictions. Problem of vision of other person, problem of vision of the future and, and state at least in general. This problem is solved regardless of tools which the person uses, and depending on his own level of development, from its professional competence of much bigger degree. Therefore, it is represented to me that in the future the astrology will have the same destiny, as at programming. When only just there were first COMPUTERS, there was a terrible boom. It seemed that programmers can do all and now will not be neither economists, nor philologists, doctors, and there will be programmers, everything considering. Then gradually everything became on the places and it became clear that doctors (both economists, and all the others) which want to use programming, should teach it honest. Too most with an astrology. Actually, all people of humanitarian professions, possibly, will have any idea of an astrology (not only about solar signs, but also about a horoscope as a whole) and in that degree in which they are predisposed to it, it will use (someone more, someone is less).
– Whether it is possible to say what the future of an astrology lies in its development as language, instead of how ideologies?
– I with you absolutely agrees. As to ideology, i.e. astrology philosophy, it, possibly, too will have the development and will represent a great interest for professional astrologers – people who will be engaged in an astrology as symbolism. But them as it seems to me, will be not so much. In a basis ideas of an applied astrology, after all, will lie.
– What do you think of what the astrology both was, and remains occult discipline? What all the same there will be a circle of people which will be engaged in serious principles on the basis of which the astrology is under construction, and any part of an astrology simply will enter into culture and all humanitarian specialties slowly to it will use? Or the astrology completely will deduce itself in a social layer and there will be no esoteric activity of astrologers?
– Besides it is a question of astrology appendices. The astrology interested and will always interest mystics, occultists in narrow sense of this word, i.e. people for whom the reality of the thin world is much more actual, than for all than the others.
And as the science (as well as any science) it by the nature эзотерична, i.e. it has own language which is inaccessible to broad ekzoterichesky masses. The Ezoterichnost usually is understood as a certain secret knowledge which to well narrow circle of the elite, and, for example, the physics quite under this representation approaches. Physics is people who know some secrets, magic formulas and with their help can do such fantastic things how softly to plant the ship on the Moon. A thing, from my point of view, absolutely improbable though I have physical and mathematical education.
There are some people who can go in for physics, there are some people who can go in for mathematics. Them do not call occultists, but, in any sense, they are esoterics. The same, is people with mystical talent and these people, as a rule, are called as mystics and occultists. And, certainly, they use an astrology because the astrology gives entrance keys in the thin world much more powerful, than many other simvolizm.
– And with what such acute aversion of an astrology is connected by Orthodoxy? There is an opinion that in Russia now the ideological vacuum and some forces fight for that it to fill. Some western astrologers consider that in Russia the astrology becomes ideology, the official doctrine. And so, manifestation of such negative attitude of Orthodoxy to an astrology is a race for power?
– Since times of emergence of an astrology in Russia, it traditionally was considered being near chernoknizhiy and sorcery. This science was denied on the name. And I see in it in much bigger degree tradition following, rather than the objection against in what really the astrology is engaged is valid.
As to ideology, the astrology cannot be ideology in principle. It is some language, this some mean. It for me sounds the same as if somebody told that the modern chemistry becomes ideology of the Russian society. It is unreal. Another thing is that studying of an astrology assumes a certain philosophical culture. And in that philosophy which stands up for an astrology, possibly, look through contours of the future, any general humanitarian philosophy of an era of Aquarius. We now can guess it only. And here I see for myself a lot of things. The universal concept of the person which I tried to develop in a series «Kabbalistichesky astrology» is there was an attempt, using astrological terms, to give some picture of all manifestations of the person, and the astrology here gave very big help and support. I think, as it helps other people with the philosophical plan though it is not so rectilinear as it seems.
There are different entrances in an astrology. Some enter on the Neptune, as mystics. Some – on Uranium, as fortunetellers. And some – across Jupiter – through outlook. They receive something, but it is less, than they would like.
– And nevertheless, how you represent yourselves future ideology of Russia?
– Ideology of Russia or that ideology which will come through Russia? These are different things. I not quite understand that «the ideology of Russia» means. I feel a certain humanitarian concept which now gains in strength in Russia which absorbs in itself both some western elements and some east elements. And, maybe, in Russia really there will be a philosophy synthesis (about what Andreev wrote, that he understood as «a stalk of the Rose of the world»). Russia, certainly, has a possibility to make a contribution to creation of new philosophy. But as to Russia as the states, I do not think that in it there will be a centralized ideology which will take a Marxism-Leninism place.
– Someone approaches to religion, to God from the conscious party, and someone – with unconscious. Dynamic factors of an astrology, a horoscope as a certain fixing of the moment of the birth, in fact are God’s manifestations of will in relation to this individual. And accepting the horoscope (according to the level of development), the person follows this Divine will. You adhere to this thought or the astrology is not so high conductor?
– The astrology is, strictly speaking, a science. More precisely, humanity.
It is a science in very big degree phenomenological. She specifies that occurs to the person. For example, in one good astrological book the astrologer speaks, as it works with psychologists. «When to me the psychologist comes, I look at the card of his client and I speak:« Dig there and there». It starts to dig and it saves to it many months of work». This very exact description of an astrology. It gives the help to any person, both the atheist, and the believer. The majority of believing people considers that God created this Universe, in particular. He created planets and nature laws (and the number of these laws includes astrological regularities). Then, naturally, it is possible to consider, whatever is in the house in this world and such temperament which corresponds to my position of Mars, its square to Venus, to Jupiter and so on gave me to me. If I in principle the person the believer, I, naturally, accept those features of my mentality or a physical body with which I was born. And if I am better than them the floodplain, it will help me to react to the same transits better. I understand so that God sends me any test which is reflected, let us assume, in intense transits. If the card helps me to cope better with this test, it should not enter into a contradiction with my religious feeling. On occupations by an astrology the religious person should have a sanction from within, i.e. his religious feeling should it tell: this yours (or on the contrary: it not yours and better there do not go). And if my religious feeling does not contradict my occupations by an astrology, then I can, using its laws, to receive quite concrete advantage – there is no contradiction. The same as my religious feeling can forbid to listen to me to a weather forecast, and can not forbid. It is a question, which each person solves for itself. I know believing people who use an astrology, and they have no internal conflict on this subject.
– Your opinion concerning ways of development of an astrology? How, in your opinion, it will be transformed in society and in itself as a science to an era of Aquarius? What tendencies will prevail? Whether it will differ from an astrology, say, the Middle Ages?
– As it is represented to me, an astrology – one of the most dynamic sciences. Astrological symbols change the value absolutely at the same time how the civilization develops. If defeat of Mars in the XVII-XVIII centuries was, actually, fatal for the person (the struck Mars in the VIII house unequivocally was interpreted as violent death), now when the person learned to consult with the aggressive instincts, and there is such concept as psychological work on, Mars automatically ceases to be such menacing planet. Too most it is possible to tell and about Saturn, and the highest planets. As soon as there was deeper understanding of human nature (we will remember Freud’s works and the Ship’s boy, first of all) – instantly changed the character astrological symbols. And now there is the same grandiose change of mentality as forward there is a human factor. It appears, the person and human community is at all that we thought earlier. And the hidden possibilities of the person appeared incomparably above, than it was supposed, and idea of human society, collective, interrelation of the person with collective now too is exposed to very strong transformation. It means that interpretations of planets and all horoscope as a whole change.
It goes to what party? Here it is necessary to be the expert in culture. Each person thinks in own way. It seems to me that now in culture there is a process of assimilation of corpuscular and wave dualism which in physics at some instant arose, and is now imposed on all culture. To each phenomenon there will correspond two models: one wave, and other corpuscular. And, respectively, process of specification and "quantization" of astrological interpretations (i.e. that was described by neptuniansky categories earlier, rather uncertain, it will be described on-saturnovski accurately), and on the other hand that was described absolutely accurately and definitely on the one hand will go, will receive the wave (neptuniansky) description. And the person, depending on circumstances, can use as one, and another.
And the second – allocation of absolutely concrete branches of an astrology with reference to the different humanities.
– There is speculation concerning unopened planets; Proserpine, Transpluton and the others. What principles yet did not find the embodiment in open planets?
– Astrologers hoped for Volcano opening, but Einstein, as we know, explained a deviation of sunshine the relativity theory then the Volcano was as though closed. And until Einstein’s theory will not be replaced by any other concept, chances of Volcano opening as I understand, a little. As to Proserpine… Certainly, astrologers would like, that planets was 12, and it is clear, but they still should be earned.
– Whether in it and a question earned mankind one more principle?
– I do not know. As to me personally, I represent that more dense studying of the thin world will go. The science recognizes existence of that in an occultism is called as a radio body. It that now is actively studied as bioenergy, aura. It will be not that it is proved, but, at least, is conventional (can be, the following generation of scientists because scientific paradigms, as we know, leave together with generation, them bearing). I quite assume that studying of the thin world will begin by means of semi-biological, semi-mechanical devices. And then the concept of an egregor as thin analog of human collective is materialized: distinct collective (family, ethnos) or hidden, more diffuzny collective (community of the scientists who are engaged in this branch of knowledge). And when it will be conventional, can quite be that will open the corresponding planets. Perhaps, it will be Proserpine, I do not know. . Those seven planets which we is visible with the naked eye quite suffice to me. The Kabbalistichesky astrology is constructed on this septener.
On the other hand, when you take up the problems of modern society (not a world order in general, and modern problems), it is quite natural to use those planets (and asteroids) which were open., For example, Chiron causes big sympathy in me. It is a planet which materializes the thin world for the people ready to it. My many researches are devoted to vertical communication between thinner and more dense reality. But, after all, by the nature, I am more inclined to work with that is, instead of that once will be. In this sense I should stand on two feet. To study properties of yet open planet is for me approximately the same what to tell joke salt.
– And how you consider, the astrology will go by the way of specification of existing major factors of language (zodiac signs, at home, planets, aspects), or by the way of multiplication of sushchnost, up to consideration of additional factors?
– Any serious science has rather developed language therefore always there are theorists from a science which study the most different as you speak, factors. In principle, in it anything bad is not present. For each specific astrologer there is a question where it should stop. Because if all card is entirely filled with sensitive points and aspects between them, to understand it it is impossible. And the question costs in such a manner that anyway each astrologer, according to the rhythm of destiny, with the requirements, isolates in an astrology any set of objects with which it, generally and uses. The task of his teacher – to impart to it due level of culture in this regard. For example, it would be wrong to interpret a horoscope, excepting zodiac signs. It is very peculiar to beginning astrologers. Planets and houses are as though more real and are more simply described in words. Nevertheless, any professional astrologer understands that such interpretation in something is defective. It is clear that first of all it is necessary to look at planets and zodiac signs. At home is something, it is imposed on them though sometimes it would be desirable on the contrary. Considering some common cultural representation, it is bad to consider the separate isolated insignificant points, without having looked at the Sun and the Moon. The conclusions made thus, will be for certain defective or simply incorrect. But if the standard principle is observed, each astrologer can have any elements. They can even be reflected in its own natal chart. If, for example, in the I house it has any exotic asteroid, can quite be that for it it will be significant in cards of other people, and it will be guided by it. In it anything bad is not present.
I, for example, use, and for me are significant, all 4 points of an orbit of the Moon: Northern and Southern lunar knots, Black and White Moon. I look at them, when I interpret the card though they are not planets.
– You – one of few astrologers who can brag of an extensive full course of an astrology. It is very hard work – to write very much and so substantially. The textbook covers practically all astrological concepts. What your opinion how in principle it is necessary to study an astrology? With what to begin; from zodiac signs, from aspects? How it is better to build astrology training? How you comprehended it?
– I had a certain experience of training to rather difficult things, I by the main profession of mathematics. Habit to abstract thinking plus interest to psychology. I think that my experience is not universal. Though it was necessary to me quite hard at the beginning because it was necessary to master enormous number of absolutely ill-matched information… Especially me confused, for example, that the Maiden is a clear idea of the physical plan, and the Sagittarius is something such ideal and as though these zodiac signs belong to different thin bodies. And still me puzzled that sometimes the house and the corresponding zodiac sign in the description of textbooks are strongly similar. Therefore I built own textbooks so that is rather accurate раздифференцировать life plans which signs, houses and planets concern. And, apparently, it served its purpose, i.e. when I internally for myself made it, then the corresponding texts cleared up. Possibly, to start to study an astrology it is necessary from that the person understood that he, as a matter of fact, wants. It is best of all to mean any specific needs. And, certainly, before studying a psychological astrology, it is necessary to have some psychological base. And certain philosophical base. I do not say that from it it is necessary to begin, but, with my point of view, an astrology course without any ideas of a world order to which the astrology, anyway, refers, is impossible If to speak about teaching within the program for some years, certainly, along with an astrology it is necessary to include psychology, certain aspects of east philosophy and any common cultural things which was are developed in the XX century. Each person represents a paradigm of an era of Aquarius in own way, but somehow it should be presented. That it seems to me wrong is to represent an astrology as absolutely traditional things. I imagine Aquarius if to speak about animals, as stork. According to psychological characteristics it is similar: flies, proud, independent, costs on one foot… Therefore the song «A stork, hi, a stork, we, at last, you waited…» can be transition reflection by a new era in public subconsciousness.
Possibly, each person who teaches an astrology, should ask such question: how in my internal reality, the new era and how it is reflected in my understanding of an astrology, signs, planets enters into my mentality? This statement of a question, possibly, will affect a course of lectures and seminars.
– Whether there are any books on astrology which personally affected you most of all? Or, maybe, you studied at someone and if it is possible, call this person.
– Generally it is literature in English as in Russian then practically was nothing. First of all, Debbie Kempton Smith’s book «Secrets from a notebook of the astrologer» in which some things and, of course, Sakoyan-Ekker’s textbook though there along with mass of advantages there is a certain confusion are rather deeply developed, for example, a planet in a sign quite often is interpreted as a planet in the house. Nevertheless, there mass of uranichesky revelations, the correct forecasts (for example, Pluton in the Scorpion and everything there is described that occurred, quite under this description falls). But in a basis for me the psychological knowledge, my digressions to psychology and, to some extent, in an occultism lay… It, in particular, contents of my first book under a pseudonym A.Tikhomirov – some idea of structure of subconsciousness of the person, of society, an egregorialny look. And I used an astrology (described) as language which can give more fair idea of these phenomena.
– You have astrology course, very harmonous system connected with management of signs, houses, with the culmination in signs, houses. You gathered it from that literature which read or it is your personal experience checked by practice? Still dispute on, where who кульминирует is not ended…
– If to speak about textbooks of a course of the general astrology, there everything is exclusively traditional, except Chiron. In a natal chart it at me costs in the I house (if to look according to Platsidus) and I very well feel it. Therefore I had some bases for its definition. Traditionally that Chiron treats the Taurus and to Scales (I put it in the Taurus, but there can be over time it more it will appear manager Vesov).
As to the culmination and management, that, as far as I understand a medieval look on a septener, all managers are unequivocally defined. And the culmination is later invention. I perceive the culmination as an additional stroke, additional accent. While I cannot tell that from any highest point of sight to me it is clear that the culmination means.
– You mentioned system of houses of Platsidus. And you used what systems of houses also what, in your opinion, there is a difference between descriptions which give different systems of houses?
– A choice of system of houses as well as rectification, is in very big degree control of the astrologer for the client. The astrologer is stronger, the more it imposes a horoscope of the client on a rhythm of life of the client. This well-known rule. Therefore I could tell simply that this matter of taste. On the other hand, many astrologers use some systems of houses and, in particular, I too. I at some instant offered system of houses which called "natural". It very simply is defined on those hours which hang in a room. Here now, for example, business goes to twelve, means, now the Sun goes on the X-th house, and exactly in 12. 00 Sun will be included into the IX house. Here such socially oriented system of houses.
Ravnodomnye systems are good or bad that they are not sensitive to куспидам houses, i.e. there is concept of connection of a planet with kuspidy no house. And that system of houses which I just called as it is represented to me, has some relation to psychological reality of the person, whose consciousness passes to an era of Aquarius. I, at least, work with it thus.
When the mentality of the person is in an era of Fishes, it has certain very strong psychological bindings. It is possible to express traditional attitude of the person of an era of Fishes so that God is, but It is not ubiquitous and not всеведущ. It is especially active, for example, in church (where I go to pray) or a minute of strong sincere mourning (I will call him, It will come to me and will help). And when I carry out the small sins, It is as though far… When the person is approximately in such attitude, it is broken off and it has very strong bindings to purely life experiences and plots which for it become almost religious. It is reflected and in the sinastrichesky moments when another’s planet gets to me on куспид any house or my own planet standing close to куспиду, connects two houses together (not palatable situation because the next houses quite strongly differ, and a planet them as though turns out connects together). When the person starts to think of life in terms of evolutionary programs, the participation in them and self-development by means of, let us assume, work in collective, these outsets very strongly weaken. In particular, parasitic outsets with other people when the general karmic program is over leave, and socially there is no possibility to be untied. When these things leave, respectively, there is some reorganization of houses, i.e. some planets get to other houses. And it, by the way, is very much felt.
– There is an opinion on existence of rigid formulas on calculation орбисов and the astrologer, thanks to the experience, can change these орбисы, but not towards increase. Finds this confirmation in your experience?
– In the book «Cabbala of numbers» the vodoleysky quantum scheme орбисов which is focused on dedication, i.e. on evolutionary level of this person is described. This scheme perfectly works and it is directly visible, what effects arise upon transition to the card of the following dedication. When at the person the consciousness changes, some aspects cease to work for it, and some, thinner, on the contrary, join. If I work with the client who is alien all these ideas and thinks quite traditionally, I usually do the "platsidusovsky" card with traditional орбисами: about the 6th hail, for planets, the 8th hail, for stars, the 4th hail, for knots, for minor aspects орбис is less. It quite suits me. Probably, this my personal property – I am not inclined to become attached by any separate moment: to concrete aspect, a planet etc. I always try to see an integrated picture, for me it is natural to look at a planet as a whole: struck or harmonious, strong or weak. Therefore the role of this concrete aspect on the verge орбиса for me as though is washed away, becomes greyish. And than the aspect is more exact, it is brighter than subjects. And than it is farther from the exact value, subjects it is less essential. But at other astrologer other representations on this subject can be perfect. Therefore your question is to a great extent a personal record of the astrologer or concrete astrological school.
– Astrological consultations and collection of a payment for it. How you approach to this question? On the agenda there is a question of astrology legitimization as to a profession, and there are various opinions concerning cost of astrological services.
– The relations with finance is a part of the general culture and the person, and society. It not is purely astrological problem. In general, that there is a humanitarian expert? In our society it costs yet much, but reorganization and further development of our society rise the price of humanitarian experts that is connected with process of approach of an era of Aquarius. It personally very much pleases me. Because if the person costs so much, as his Marx described (as it costs at the machine and turns a detail), it, of course, sad. Such outlook very much afflicted me, when I studied and got the higher education. Any person has natural potential of professionalism for which it takes money (strictly speaking, it takes money for the time). If the person goes into higher education, finishes a higher educational institution, he can be engaged in teaching of the corresponding disciplines and take the corresponding money. It is a question of level of services which, finally, decides level of integrity of the astrologer-adviser. On the other hand, it decides as well the client: as far as that the astrologer gives is interesting to it. I consider that as the question of payment of healers is solved. It is a question sharper because it is considered that Divine force goes through hands of the healer. Divine force, generally, one at all. The question goes about level of registration of this force.
As to big earnings… It is known that in the West there is very small number of very qualified astrologers (most likely, at them) which give consultations to very high-ranking people at rather high level and, possibly, big money has good level of clairvoyance for it. It is good, when the astrologer well works and the client is happy with it. And as to the people speculating with authority of a science… It does not need to be discussed.
– To a question of certification. There is diplomaed physics, mathematics, philologists. On the agenda – the diplomaed astrologer. Whether it and how it can be reached is necessary?
– I have the diploma about mathematical education and when I finished мехмат, my research supervisor told that my diploma is not necessary anything that the mathematician is a person who goes in day and night for mathematics. And then, years through 10-15 after the higher education institution termination, from it the mathematician, maybe, will turn out. My chief was the academician, a star, and something, certainly, meant. Therefore, from some highest point of sight, the astrologer is a person, which astrologer on calling. And diploma…
On the other hand, there are certain social institutes, and any astrologer should hear to certain courses to have some level and width of astrological knowledge, should have a certain practice of work with managements, progressions and to understand that the astrology and personally it can predict and expect, and that cannot. And, certainly, training within several years, communication with similar and with the qualified people gives a lot of things. Therefore astrology allocation from a common cultural context with the established forms of education – for example within HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTION is represented to me wrong. There is a psychology, there is a medicine (too the humanity and, in some respects even less certain, than an astrology). And it is natural that an astrology – a part of culture and it is not necessary to deny it, and it is not necessary to exaggerate its value. There is "pop astrology", and there is a serious astrology and at it – a circle of consumers, a circle of adherents. It was artificially switched off from culture therefore there was a terrible boom as soon as it was resolved. Now, it, thank God, settled a little. I am very glad that your magazine is intended to professional astrologers, I hope that it and will represent further for them interest. Eventually, the culture of this area also is defined by such editions. You will read, by you will be guided, not on the concrete contents, namely on common cultural level.
– Whether it seems to you that such passion to the general forecasts speaks what the client wishes to receive something concrete? Culture of society is as follows: the person is ready to pay money that to it will tell that the 25th he will break a leg…
– It is necessary to distinguish accurately clients who come with the psychological purposes, and clients who come with the pragmatical purposes. The client of low level who comes to the psychologist, actually wants to change nothing in itself, he wants, that the psychologist completely acquitted him, i.e. gave a certain sanction that it (client) in everything is right, and people around in everything are guilty. Similarly when the pragmatist of low level comes to the astrologer, he wants, that that made a miracle. «Here at me affairs do not go. Tell to me, during what moment I need to base firm that affairs went excellent». Each astrologer has ways of fight against such clients, for example, to tell to it: «Begin tomorrow at 8 o’clock in the evening. And, if you to me pay one million dollars (and it is possible rubles if dollars are not present), at you everything will go perfectly».
And increase of culture of the client and society as a whole concerning for what it is possible to wait from the astrologer, is big, tough and necessary job in which all of us are engaged.
– You mentioned that now are engaged in an astrology less, and it is more healing. This leaving is connected with disappointment in an astrology, what it does not help you to solve the internal problems? What relationship of your new activity with an astrology? How you use it and whether use in general?
– In what I am engaged, logically follows from my latest works, namely, from «the Kabbalistichesky astrology». It gives communication between thin bodies of the person (one of them – physical). And having described some overall picture, I perfectly understood that it is too abstract that the much bigger specification is necessary. Besides, I had a feeling (and now it proves to be true) that it is possible to show at level of a physical body absolutely real communication between, for example, psychology and a physical human body. That I now speak, this platitude, and the majority is modern conceiving psychologists surely uses corporal therapy and, on the contrary, the people who are engaged in a physical body, perfectly know that behind serious physical problems surely there are problems psychological. It wanted to me to find any scheme, the theoretical preconditions giving keys to understanding of communication of psychology and the physical plan. In an astrology long ago it is known about a ratio of zodiac signs and parts of a body, planets and some bodies. But that was fair and good worked earlier, possibly, in connection with change of the general power of society, now works in a different way. Also it would be desirable to understand it.
– And in practical sense you use horoscopes of those people with which work?
– When I should work with the person close, I surely do it a horoscope and I look a sinastriya with myself, but it is simple not to do gross blunders. When absolutely new person comes and with it it is necessary to construct quickly enough the relations, if he does not object, I and to it tell something according to its card (the most main things) and itself I look it for myself and for relationship.
– What role in your life was played by Radjyar which 100 anniversary will be celebrated in March? Your relation to it and to what it made?
– In general it one of the most popular astrological authors. He tried to write rather seriously, with due philosophical and psychological depth. It is represented to me that it, in any sense, an astrology wreath in the spirit of an era of Fishes. And after that inclusion of Aquarius went already. It has in very big degree a neptuniansky astrology if to speak about the main style of compositions. They resound, first of all, with subconsciousness of the astrologer and archetypes which it uses, are expressed not too distinctly. In it I see its not present. Modern representations lean on rather distinct archetypes. And in general it, certainly, made very big contribution to astrological movement, in European, at least. We should it be deeply grateful for it.